please don’t integrate karma! (addendum: at least not how exists in LD)

I'm not sure...

I agree with Jessi, I'm okay with the karma system as long as both have the same, or near the same outcome. 

I dont want to have to choose between a "a much needed carcass with bad karma" vs "1SC with good karma." 

I like the idea of karma, but want things to stay closely balanced.

I like the idea of Karma. It makes your wolf at least known for it's actions. But that doesn't mean you can't do what you want. You can be bad or good and people shouldn't judge you for that, but it would be good to have something that your wolf is conscience of instead of it just doing anything that'll get you something.

Idk about that Mapple. I feel like karma systems kind of have potential to punish pragmatic playstyles.

Like the butterfly encounter.

If down the line I decide to eat it to get my 99% hunger back to 100% because it's convenient at that moment, and I get karma punished for it, then that's not a kind of thing I would enjoy in explore.

The options I pick in explore really tie into what my wolf or my pack needs at the time so it'd be a little annoying to feel the need to go one way or another because I - as the player - would not want to have bad karma for playing in the way I find most efficient. 

you guys are putting into words what i couldn’t figure out how to say, so thank you! a karma system would be fun in a completely different way than it exists on LD, such as using personalities and pack interactions rather than explore encounters. in games where i can choose between being good and evil, i enjoy playing good, but if choosing the “good” option is disadvantageous then it kind of sucks the fun out of it, yknow? 

No support. Karma is a fun little thing that has basically no effects on what goes on in the game. If you feel pressured then that's you but I wouldn't want to see the system removed/destroyed because some people don't like it.

Putting it into pack interactions (which mods have said will NOT be added) sounds like it'd be taking everything out of the system and making it oversimplified/boring to me. Not to mention LD also has karma to interactions and those just aren't enough to influence your king's level.

Support! While I don’t mind Lioden’s karma system, I was happy to see that it didn’t exist on Wolvden when I first started playing. I highly agree with everyone saying that having an explore-based karma system will be a problem, since this game is already harder to survive in. I do love the idea of a karma system based more on pack interactions though!

Idk, I think that it's sometimes difficult to do the "right thing." Just like in real life it would be easier to make the morally wrong choice to get ahead faster, even for a good reason, but the action is still wrong. Like stealing to feed your family. The merchant was selling the food to ensure their survival or another had the food for their consumption. You still hurt another person to feed who is important to you. It's still wrong even if you need that resource out of desperation.

To use someone's earlier ingame example, chomping on the butterfly to help alleviate your lead's hunger doesn't make the action morally right.

I like the idea of a karma system. I wouldn't mind if it was tweaked either but I still like the idea of having it in explore. I think the devs did a good job in LD making the "evil" and "good" choices balanced. 

Edit: I also don't agree with the game being difficult. The staff are tweaking the rng to feel more balance but it's not like this game is that challenging. I can't wait for this game to implement more mechanics and  become more challenging and interesting overtime. Not just luck based like it is now. Karma would be a mechanic that we actually have control over unlike the rest of the game as it stands right now. 

And yes, karma has little to no effect in game if the staff are following copy and pasting the mechanic from LD. It's just extra fun, imo.

i can respect that opinion for sure! 

That's the thing for me. I don't want to be making "good" or "evil" choices. I like playing neutral, borderline chaotic neutral. And if there's karma I'd personally want my karma to reflect that because then it would be a reflection on my wolf (who by my lore is chaotic neutral/chaotic good).

Especially with some of the encounters we already have in-game. 

The goshawk / squirrel encounter gives you the option to help the squirrel (good), eat the squirrel (bad?), and reveal the squirrel to the hawk (bad??). The latter option of revealing the squirrel has the text "something had to die so something else can live", and that's the logic I tend to use for my wolf when I play, since it's pretty realistic and not something I can find myself comfortably placing any sort of straight line 'good' or 'bad' karma on.

Eating the raccoon kits can be something easily seen as rude and wrong when there was the food stores right there, which is one thing, you could see that as clearly bad. But the butterfly? It chose to land on my wolf's nose, therefore my wolf eating is no different than if it got stuck in a spider's web. Compared to the raccoon it isn't malicious in intent at all, and not something I think should be punished for picking.

The same can be said for a fair amount of other existing encounters. You could analyze them and put them into pools of good and bad choices, but at the end of the day, a lot of them are just choices to be a proper, opportunistic animal just trying to live.

And there are encounters where your clickable 'options' has one you would think would be bad, but the outcomes wildly vary and even wind up being good, or vice versa.. Harassing the seal in the tundra can result in you freeing it and getting HP as a reward. Trying to find a baby seal's mom results in a battle with an elephant seal and a potential curb stomp battle against it.

Hence why I'm not a fan of karma being on WD. I'm not a fan of like/dislike/karma systems as a whole, and would rather it not be implemented at all, but I can come to ignore it or even like it a little if it's fleshed out in a way that acknowledges the perspective of the animals in the game and not strictly a human one. Or at least gives a little room to more neutral alignments.

That way there'd be a nice amount of nuance and not just good/bad choices. 

I completely agree with not wanting the same system that they have on Lioden. Whatever some people say, the sense of compulsion to do the "good" thing does effect how certain players interact with the game, and I think it works at times against the wolf role-play. What is good and evil to a human won't be the same as good and evil to a hungry wolf, and locking all pack-leaders into a black-and-white morality system that doesn't take situation into account could wreck some of the RP elements. Hard Support.