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Posted 2022-07-02 07:14:03 #785691 Yeah news!!!

Viper Rat #3941

Posted 2022-07-05 18:26:30 #788203 I don't know how I feel about the traveling wolf part... I did a few commissions on the sister site, Lioden. And I always went through with my promises. If I promised people commissions, took their currency, and dipped, I would be banned right? I'm not understanding the difference. Both of these scenarios include a party breaking the rules of the agreement and scamming someone. If a user can provide optimal proof that they have been scammed, why shouldn't they be compensated? The people who take traveling wolves and chase them or keep them are trolls at best, scammers at worst. If scammers can do that to people, I don't get why people can't call them out.

LoonaToona #45189

Posted 2022-07-05 18:55:54 #788217 Yeah art feels like it could be a "promised based transaction" since you're giving them currency and waiting for art. But if they don't deliver it, the mods do get invited after a few months. While I don't think they can unchase a wolf, I do think a fair system for refunded breeding and traveling wolves needs to be put into place

Slothie #2938

Posted 2022-07-06 03:06:48 #788600 When commissioning for art, you visit a thread on Tree Carvings sub-chatter, meet an artist that offers you art for certain price. The artist promises you an art if you pay upfront. There's an agreement that you pay them assets and they give you commissioned art. If the artist takes the payment but doesn't make art for you, they might be questioned for violating CoC 1.26a. When pawing over traveling wolf, it usually goes the following way: somewolf asks for the traveling wolf in your pack, you give it. They're most likely not asked whether they're aware of the rules or whether they accept it. Thus, they're not obliged to paw over the wolf to any other player and can't even be considered a scammer for keeping the wolf. The difference between these cases is that in the former one, the artist forms a verbal agreement during the transaction that you're given a commissioned art. In the latter one, there's no agreement set when you're transferring a traveling wolf to another player thus the player can't be questioned for CoC 1.26 that requires a verbal agreement to be questioned for scamming.

Dżanek #24018

Posted 2022-07-06 08:13:17 #788725 Right. But you could add a verbal agreement in messages and it wouldn't be honored. The same thing could be said with refunded breedings. I've been sent confirmations in messages that I have a refunded breeding that were later not honored. I'm not saying they're exactly the same. It does teeter a fine line that would be difficult for the mods to sort out. I don't expect them to decide on a case by case basis based on messages and rules set by people. I'm just asking for consideration of better systems. The admins have a history - both in lioden and wolvden - of implementing systems when certain problems arise. When mystery bags became a problem on lioden, they implemented a system. They also implemented a raffle system that was brought over to wolvden. They implemented genes hollow when scrying became an issue. They listen to quality of life issues. This is just another thing to think above down the development pipeline

Slothie #2938

Posted 2022-07-06 08:48:24 #788807 @Dżanek But that's just not true. Lots of traveling wolves have descriptions/agreements in their bio. And before a traveling wolf is sent to a new host the owner/stop host will DM them and give a formal warning/description of what a traveling wolf is and how long they can keep the wolf for. For the vast majority of cases, there is usually some sort of formal agreement between users. And if the moderators cannot enforce that type of formal agreement, then there is nothing stopping people from scamming people out of art commissions. Overall, this is bad for the community. Things like traveling wolves keep the community together, because it's fun and allows people to players to bond and expand lore. Heck, there are lots of people getting scammed out of promised refunded breedings now too, which also just isnt right.

LoonaToona #45189

Posted 2022-07-06 09:15:17 #788823 In my experience with travelers, there generally isn't a formal agreement. Something written in a wolf's bio is not an agreement. (Imagine, for instance, if you bought a pup off the TC and the bio said "do not chase" or "do not breed" or "do not inbreed" - you would not be bound by any of that. You paid the price to buy the pup and now it's yours.) Also I certainly don't make formal agreements when moving on travelers - I'm just like "Julep's ready to move on! I can swap!" and someone else says "Want to swap for Ares?" and I say "Sure!" So I agree it's not enforceable from a pure contract law standpoint. Which is why it's all the more necessary that the community have the ability to establish, by word of mouth, who is not trustworthy to send travelers to.

Lionel #34199

Posted 2022-07-06 09:57:01 #788844 @Lionel I've only done it once and there was no agreement as well, so I definitely agree with you 100%

Slothie #2938

Posted 2022-07-06 10:47:06 #788886 Dzanek, that's not how traveling wolves are swapped, it's more like Lionel says. I think there should be more formal agreement when swapping travelers if that's what is holding Mods back from enforcing the scammers. If they see 'hey can someone host this wolf, yeah sure, okay here' as informal, that's fine we can start changing our wording for these kinds of transactions. I agree it's ridiculous we can't call scammers out but hey that's what the traveling wolf clans are for so there's known safe groups to send traveling wolves at least there's options without any input from mods besides 'you're on your own'

Scouting for Booty #1810

Posted 2022-07-06 13:58:53 (edited) #789013 Alright, I only once passed a travelling wolf, it was in the very beginning and there was no swap - somewolf asked in chat, I was given a wolf, took care of her and gave the wolf to somewolf else after 5 days in informal way. I've just learned that now it works a bit differently. I mostly meant what Lionel has already mentioned.

Dżanek #24018

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