Please don't introduce humans as battle-able enemies

@flower

sorry for causing a scuffle earlier- twas not my intent, :(

you completely missed the point. why should the playstyle where people are killed be forced onto me, who it distresses? if you wanna fight humans go to lioden, lions actually attack humans, wolves dont/rarely do. (i apologize that was rude, i just have prefered my time on wd vs ld) i can avoid the encounters but i Dont want to see them, i dont want to see pieces of humans in the item catalogue or by chance bring it home from a hunt. besides that, theres nothing keeping you from writing killing humans in your lore.

to clarify, i play everyday. i have a goal to collect every item, i want to embrace every part of the game. it would be the same if we were a bear, i wouldnt want a bear as an enemy. its just different. humans killing humans is not normal, even if we are playing a wolf i dont want anything to do with it. i dont want violence against any human to be encouraged for trophies, quests, etc. (wolves kill all these other things to survive, they do not need to kill humans. the relationship between humans and other animals are different than they are with animals)

@Kas

It's not forced on you. That's the point, if a human appears you can just click the "explore" button again and ignore the encounter you don't want to see. I do this with scenarios where baby animals are killed because it bothers me, such as when you get the baby seals thrown at you. Is that scenario forced on me? No, I have the option to ignore it and keep playing by simply not engaging with it.

Telling people to go to another game is not a solution and I think you know why it's wrong too, come on. Whether Lioden is made by the same company or not, this is not lioden. I am not concerned with what happens on lioden. We are discussing wolvden. Let's be polite here, please.

I've already said that if there is an issue with humans being hunted (for example, pieces of them being eaten), the solution to that is to not make them prey. Don't make the wolves the ones attacking and antagonizing humans, problem solved.

That said this is devolving into personal attacks rather than attacks against the argument itself so I will stop posting here. I still do not support this. I still do not support it for already stated reasons and I believe that personal choice should be held paramount. The majority voted for this. A good number of the player base wants this, whatever their reasons may be, and for others to deny them that because they don't want to play that way is wrong. You have the choice to not engage the things you dislike.

In that same fashion, I'll not engage the thread further because this has moved to antagonizing a person instead of discussing the development of a game.

the thing is there will most likely be unavoidable things, thats my issue. such as quests, random chance item drops, etc. i know in lioden this is a thing, they arent the same game but theyre made by the same people.

sorry you felt that way and if i came off agressive, i am allowed to be distressed with a concept. some people such as me use wd as a coping mechanism that involve trauma. i want to enjoy the entire game, and not have to jump around stuff for my mental health

/Please agree to disagree. The game is supported by its player base, hence Kas’ pitch to emotion. The players feelings a feedback are important in the ability for it to thrive. And their point is if it upset or hurts even one person to the degree it would, it shouldn’t be touched. -Zy/

Support!

I voted humans because it was the only "unique" option, but immediately regretted it afterwards. I didn't particularly like fighting / killing human poachers on Lioden, and as someone above said, I prefer Wolvden's world to remain without humans, too. It kinda just seems more peaceful that way. 

@Kas

It's fine that you're passionate about something that potentially distresses you, it's not okay to let that lead you to making accusations or assumptions towards others like it appeared to come across as in your post. I don't believe that anyone here is wanting to fight or has bad intentions with saying whether they are against this or not. 

I understand using things as a coping mechanism for trauma and I understand that you and others are under the impression that it will be unavoidable or that it will be horrific scenarios. I'm a little curious as to why a general statement of an example being made here is, "Human flesh will be taken as a trophy" or that it will negatively influence people to believe wolves are evil. I don't believe that will ever be the intention nor do I really believe a human flesh trophy will be a thing. 

In regards to your concern about unavoidable things, does that concern extend to potential innocent human interactions or just the potential of "hunting" humans? Would you be opposed if it were an innocent human interaction quest such as "Collect 5 shiny tins" in which the "shiny tins" would be soda that your wolf sneaks from a picnic or an unattended campsite? 

@Ithiliel

/Kas was not trying to be aggressive, or make accusations. They’ve revised their original post. Kas is against fighting and killing humans, not necessarily encounters or scenarios with humans involved. They just want to keep violence and humans seperate, nothing more. I’ve made Kas agree to not say anything else.

Oh and, sorry if any grief was caused. They’re a stinker believe me I deal with them all day, very very passionate of their opinions. -Zy/

I don't play Lioden so can't make any parallels to what goes on in that game. However, I want to remind everyone that in the original post I said that I am not concerned about people who play this game to suddenly think wolves (the wild animals) are bloodthirsty killers if their wolf character in-game relishes in killing hunters. I am more concerned with the overall perception of people who don't play this game. If they know nothing about Wolvden other than "it's a game where you play as a wolf pack and kill people" that doesn't shed very good light on Wolvden or wolves in general. 

I am not sure it is an optimal solution to have good, bad, and evil people that you can attack. The issue of hunting and poaching is not black and white. Your wolf pack defends and provides for their family. People do the same. In game you can hunt cows and get bovine carcasses. What if those cows your wolf pack is killing are that farmer's only source of income? In the same way that your wolf would kill a human threatening their livelihood, that farmer probably wouldn't stand by and idly watch their herd get decimated by a wolf pack. What if the man you see with a gun and decide to attack actually had a tranquilizer and was trying to study wolves in the area and fit them with radio collars? What if the woman you see with a pistol was was walking home at night and only had it for self-defense, and didn't intend on shooting anything at all? It is doing a great disservice to the complex reality of the situation and opposing priorities of natural resource management by making some people simply "good" and some "evil".

I am not sure that argument of making good, neutral, and evil POC is an optimal solution either. As I said before, perhaps the "evil" person is not actually evil. But there is already so much violence in the world against these groups of people especially that I really think adding a choice to further this aggression and bloodshed detracts from the game rather than adds to it. 

Just like you don't want this to force a playstyle on others, players should not be punished for not wanting to attack and battle humans. If the quest snake begins giving quests to defeat 3 humans - that could be very traumatic to people who have experienced violence, bodily harm trauma, or dog attacks for example. The other quests are somewhat realistic (of course with the plausible deniability of a snake talking to your wolf and giving you cones) it's still something you could imagine wild wolves doing. Wild wolves rarely go out of their way to attack humans. It is out of character for a semi-realistic game, as wolves usually  prefer to run away.

Also realistically, how much recourse does a wolf pack have against humans? People are able to, legally, use dogs, snares, ATVs, helicopters, and guns to slaughter wolves. Realistically, your pack has no chance defending against actual hunters - the "bad guys" - and would likely only win battles against unarmed hikers or other unprepared or lost people, which again, paints wolves in a negative light.

I support the suggestions in this thread about making human encounters, not battles, and if we acquiesce and say that most players want human encounters, it should be done so very carefully. While the language in existing battles is rather tame. The quest snake says something like "you have scared away enough wolves in [biome] to move there", and most times upon defeating an enemy it says they "are forced to retreat." However, you also get trophies of their skins, skulls, pelts, paws, ears, tails, and other body parts. That heavily implies you are indeed killing them, and having such human trophies, even meat chunks, is uncomfortable and risks glorifying violence.

semi-support!
I actually would prefer no direct human encounters at all, although I'm not opposed to it! I like the take the game currently has where its kinda implied humans exist but they're not super prevalent in the world if that makes sense? I like the untouched feel WD gives off. Also, at least in my opinion the poll seemed pretty biased when written, as if they already knew what would win. Not to mention that attacking people rubs me the wrong way and seems a bit in poor taste imo. I'm not particularly worried about the artists mishandling it as much as the general tone it'll give off if they're added---essentially what Websteak has said in their most recent post!

Full-on support! I dont think humans should be added to a game when we already face risks of killing them off as humans ourselves.  IF ANYTHING I think this game should support more conservation efforts for the wolves not just in America but all over the world! Once we tamed them and they became what we know as dogs, now we are killing them just because they are killing out livestock? Ill go one burger short if it means keeping a wolf alive. What people dont know when killing a wolf is- THAT COULD BE A MOTHER, what are her pups going to do when their mother is killed? Its like Bambi but wolf edition.

If ANY humans should be added it should be Native Americans! They have more of a connection to wolves and see them as more than just a wild animal. Maybe they could give us cool quests and such or items like medicine!!

In other words, this post is amazing and please stay safe