Show Instances of Inbreeding

actually i think whoever said this could be a togglable setting thats default off has the right idea, clean breeders get what they want and everyone else gets newbies not gettin influenced  

I’m in total agreement with greahound! I don’t have much more to add to the debate that isn’t what they just eloquently laid out ^^ However, I’d like to ask- why do y’all think defaulting the counter to off is a good solution? It’d still be there, and if it defaulted to off I think that would confuse more newbies than having it on to start with. Having a toggle for something you can’t see is always off putting, especially to a new player trying to figure out what everything corresponds to. (Personally, I’d prefer the ticker to be always present, as one/two line/s of text on a family page, since that takes up little room and wouldn’t be obtrusive to IB players who don’t care about their count.)

Alternatively, I suggest there to be a feature that shows a list of 1st generation wolves along with their IDs (no ancestors over them). If any wolf repeats in the list, it means the checked wolf is inbred. If all wolves in the list are unique, their descendants are also unique, meaning the wolf is non-inbred.

I'm still against ideas that would emphasize whether wolf is inbred or not.

I support defaulting the counter to off or leaving it on. I'm neutral on that because again, I don't think the counter would actually do anything to newbies regardless.

That being said, it's not like anyone really needs to use this counter unless they deliberately wanted to check family history for inbreeding, likely because they are a NIB breeder. So in order to make sure a wolf isn't inbred, they would need to a) toggle it on, and b) check the family tree. This means that the option would be nicely hidden so that new players can make a decision on IB vs NIB before they discover the toggle.

Besides, mods could just add some text beneath the option that said to toggle it on in order to see inbreeding percentage in wolves, and that inbreeding has no effect on gameplay.

 @greahound⚡

"add some text beneath the option that said to toggle it on in order to see inbreeding percentage in wolves, and that inbreeding has no effect on gameplay."

I like that idea, this way. New players would be informed.

I always see new players asking if inbreeding has any affect. This idea would solve that problem.

^^^ big agree 

i completely get the concerns from players who were unsure about it being a perma feature/possibly influencing newbies, so it seems like a good idea to hide until they know about these things instead of immediately being faced with the information implying being nib is important from day 1. even if the site says it has no in game effect, it’s guaranteed that it’s constant inclusion will make it seem to hold more weight and implicitly suggest the challenge of NIB.

it would be the exact same thing as a tag, not hard to find at all once they explore the profile settings, and there could be a small explanation of the feature there that helps clear things up. easy for people who want it to find, but also easy to avoid if you would rather not use it

I support this for the reasons already mentioned above! 

There's a reason NIB breeding is as popular as it is, people have preferences. Some people prefer naturally colored wolves, or no-merle marked wolves, or no leaderboard studs. NIB breeding is big because some people are severely bothered by inbreeding in their pack, others dislike the look of the family tree when there are repeating names. With so many players having this preference, it might be harder to get sales/stud requests on an IB but it's still your choice to make; just as a few markings are heavily disliked sitewide and some people refuse to breed to those. It will always be a popular subject and playstyle, adding a feature like this only minimizes some of the scams/mislabeling/confusion that's happened. c: 

Also agreeing to the toggle and info for new players!

I could get behind there being a toggle and the game text that says there's a toggle and that inbreeding doesn't affect gameplay.

I feel it would be a nice middle-ground. It informs new players. It gives an aid to people who do NIB and allows IB players to turn off something that is useless to them. 

EDIT: I meant, "allows IB players to turn off something that is useless to them," in the sense that an, "instances of inbreeding," counter wouldn't really be of-use to someone who is not specifically concerned with inbreeding. My use of the word, "useless," is not meant to be an attack on implementing this function nor an attack on NIB players. I apologize if my choice of the word made it seem that way.

I don't really care if Inbreeders can't sell their wolves on the market (because to be frank, that's nobody's problem but your own. What sells and what doesn't in the market isn't up to any one person nor is it tailored to any one person.) Because guess what? You can't force people to buy what they don't want and if they don't want inbred wolves and that's all you have, you're out of luck.

Based on what I've read, Clean and NIB aren't going anywhere fast. Also, someone mentioned a notification of wolves being closely related just before you're about to breed them. This is also something I would enjoy having on the game and on Lioden too for that matter.