Blind wolves should have (at least some) roles
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Blind wolves should have (at least some) roles
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Posted 2022-10-24 11:50:49
Herbalists: since they're blind, their other senses are increased and plants, especially herbs, have a strong smell. They'd be able to forage and mix herbs with their nose as their guide. Pupsitters: similar to the herbalist role, they would be able to track down the pup(s) they're protecting by smell and also hearing. Hunters: this is a bit trickier. The reason why I exluded the scouting role is because, realistically speaking, a blind person (or wolf in this case) would have trouble navigating unfamiliar terrain and I could see something similar being applied to hunting. But their enhanced smell and hearing would actually make them better at tracking down prey. To make things a bit more balanced, blind wolves could have a higher failure rate (it would decrease with the increase of proficiency but never be cancelled out) Herbalists could get overwhelmed by too many smells and end up not bringing back any herbs while foraging or accidentally using the wrong herbs while mixing medicines. A puppy could successfully slip away from their pupsitter's notice and end up being injured or even killed. Artenatively, a pupsitter's protection could never reach 100% even with full proficiency. Similarly to herbalists, hunters could get overwhelmed by a lot of different smells and lose the trail scent or trip on something, disrupting the hunt. |
Primrose- Hiatus #6919 |
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Posted 2022-10-26 18:41:46
Pupsitter would be difficult. Yes they can hear and smell, but pups are like toddlers and all it takes a moment for something to go wrong. A smart puppy can easily get away from a blind pupsitter. My own aunt is blind (born without eyes) and even I figured out how to bypass her supervision as a young child despite her being able to smell the detergent from my clothes and hear whenever I dropped a penny in the other end of the house. I was already 10 and older when she watched me so I already had a sense when it came to avoiding danger. She absolutely could not have babysat me consistently when I was 6 and younger. Hunting is a no. Smell and hearing is not the same as vision. Scents do not linger long and are not as obvious (even to a blind wolf) as vision. The prey could cross a river and the scent could be lost. The wolf could confuse the prey's scent with another unintended animal. On top of that, walking a familiar path is different than running on said path. Running does not allow nowhere near as much physical information to be taken in. They may be aware of a log in the path, but may injure themselves on said familiar log later on via running due to the wolf not knowing how fast they are actually going and how quickly they approached that log. This is not even talking about how larger prey (like elk/deer) can very easily get the upper hand against a blind wolf. A blind wolf cannot hear or smell when a hoof is about to make contact with their head. |
 LittlePuppy #2787 |
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Posted 2022-10-26 18:55:28
I do agree with the above comment that hunting is probably not a good option. I couldn't see them being able to properly chase and kill prey when they can't see the terrain ahead of them. If anything maybe have them limited to the stalker role since that seems like a 'tracker' kind of role with how I take it. Though I do disagree with the pupsitter part. Yes, pups are unpredictable and could easily sneak away. But I think that your proposed solutions (Never reaching 100% safety) would make sense and work perfectly. |
Lily (GH!) #3016 |
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Posted 2022-10-27 05:00:33 (edited)
Wolves and dogs are completely different. What's the first thing a dog does when presented with something new? Yep. Sniff it. Dogs primarily use scent to navigate the world, and their eyesight isn't all that great compared to us. To them, a scent a week old is still pretty noticeable. Their hearing is also better than ours for hearing the kind of high-pitched sounds that small animals (including puppies) make. A dog will turn it's ears to the sound before looking at where it's coming from. The downside of having a blind animal, is that it can't always predict touch. A blind canine can tell what direction something is coming from, can feel with their whiskers where to bite to eat and pick things up (most dogs have a blind spot under their nose and can't see their food anyway) but it can't predict the exact moment of contact. That means a resting wolf would be more easily started and likely to snap or jump away from whatever touches it. For that reason, I'd say a blind wolf should have a slightly higher chance of being injured when doing their roles, but still be allowed to do them. A cap of proficiency for pupsitting and hunting might also work as a potential downside? I think capping it at 80% would be okay. This suggestion would mean a lot to me, personally, as I have poor eyesight and sensory issues that making wearing glasses hell. I can see decently well at mid-close range, but I generally don't focus my eyes if I can smell, touch or hear the thing instead. Even if we're going to suggest using human senses as the baseline (so players can more easily understand the game mechanics) I can still do the human equivalent of herbalism and pupsitting. I can cook using smell and touch to identify similar looking jars of herbs and spices. I also have 3 dogs, one of whom is a puppy, and my reliance on hearing has been very useful for telling when said puppy is trying to get at something he shouldn't! There are plenty of examples of people adapting to their particular abilities all over the world. The point is, blind and partially sighted humans aren't incapable of living fairly normal lives, and we have a lot more barriers to doing so than wolves do. Wolves already rely on their other senses far more than humans, and they don't even have to deal with annoying human things like reading signs or paying utility bills or navigating public transport (all things I very much hate doing with poor eyesight). |
 VagueShapes #828 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 09:27:22
a blind wolf would not be good at hunting. here's a link to an educational site explaining how they cannot rely on scent alone and use their eyes to track movement. their vision is actually more powerful than ours in that they can see better for long distances and in poorer light conditions. so even if i wanted to say that i personally, as someone who requires a -9.0 prescription, the loss of this sense for wolves would be even more devastating. i have difficulty functioning without corrective lenses—i can barely see past my nose. "hunting" or watching over younger siblings without corrective lenses is a daunting task to me, and i do not expect myself to perform well at all. i think if they were given the role, the success rate would have to go down, pack synergy doesn't reach 100%, blind wolf may get injured more often, etc. now with pupsitting, its a little easier, and i like the idea of them being able to take the role, but not have full protection herbalism is easy because it really does not require a lot. you don't need sight to track down herbs, because unlike prey, they don't move, and i like what LittlePuppy pointed out that the herbalist is still working with Herbert anyway my addition to the discussion is—what if a pair bond or companion to the blind wolf would help its proficiency go up in these roles? i think it would help solve the difficulties, and give bonding an added bonus |
 Feli #69778 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 09:32:18
I also really like Feli's suggestion of blind wolves in a pair bond being able to be more proficient. Maybe it could even be an updated part of the mentor role? |
 CrownOfRoses #15588 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 09:33:28
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 Rin Spiritwolf #8721 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 10:58:52
It doesn't specifically say that wolves "cannot rely on scent alone", but it does go into depth on how they utilise their well-adapted vision whilst hunting. The word "need" in that highlighted sentence does suggest they might not be able to hunt without sight, but going through the cited book, I can't actually find anything that says vision is the key to hunting success. (Here's a link to a preview in case anyone wants to read/buy it link ). Most of our studies on canines are of the domestic kind, so I'm having trouble finding ones that mention anything about blindness and hunting success. What we do know for certain is that the sense their largest portion of their brain is dedicated to is scent. In human beings the largest portion is dedicated to vision. An animal blind from birth in a society of creatures that don't prioritize vision would probably do just fine. Because this site isn't fully realism, then depending on your lore/whether you play the events, a blind wolf could follow auditory cues from pack members. I did find a lovely article on a blind agility dog whilst researching, and another on a blind hunting dog (but only the point and retrieve kind), plus shepherding dogs work well to whistles and spoken commands, so we know it's possible in their domestic counterparts. I should have mention that I have sighthounds, and since they are a type of specialised canis lupus, I mostly thought of them when writing. I definitely can say that despite the name, they don't prioritize their vision nearly as much as I do, and I don't use my vision as much as fully sighted people. It was pretty awesome to find out that the great motion tracking they do have is shared with their wild cousins though! My whippet will snap at something before he even fully registers what it is, but thankfully he corrects himself if he bites something he shouldn't. From what I can find on blind dogs, and without some leeway from the fantasy aspects of the game, I would say that blind wolves should only be able to do the stalker role, or hunting parties with them in should only be able to find critter (possibly small as well) trails. If we had specific roles for stalker/chaser/finisher then that would be pretty easy to code, so for now I think I'd only support pupsitter and herbalist. I would definitely prefer a proficiency cap on the pupsitters, as opposed to puppies protected by them never reaching 100%. That defeats the point of pupsitter for me, and the survival chance at birth is based on the parents level I believe? That suggests they're probably still looking after their puppies in some fashion, so it wouldn't make sense to cap the puppy survival instead of the pupsitter. |
VagueShapes #828 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 11:04:02 (edited)
Edit: I also like the idea of blind wolves in a pairbond being more proficient in their role. As well as the idea of pupsitters being capped at a lower proficiency -- maybe 70%? |
Proxy on Hiatus #86672 |
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Posted 2022-10-28 11:42:37
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 Dżanek #24018 |