Deaf Wolves Should Have Any Role
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Posted 2022-11-11 11:17:28
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 ElectroSwing 💞 #43082 |
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Posted 2022-12-12 21:59:38
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 Muxa #12121 |
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Posted 2022-12-13 09:11:47
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Mangorain #51514 |
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Posted 2022-12-22 03:21:42 (edited)
I think they should absolutely be able to hunt, too. I don't really see how hunting would be seriously affected by a wolf being deaf. They can see the action and what's going on and everything. Maybe an increased chance of injury due to being deaf while still allowing them to have any hunting role? They should absolutely be able to mentor, buuut there is a lesson about howling, and I don't really think a deaf wolf could teach that?? Like they can howl but they wouldn't be able to hear the pups in order to give pointers. I don't know how hard it would be to exclude deaf wolves from a single lesson so ehh?? And as for leaders, yes. The only "necessary" coding difference would be encounters that mention sounds and perhaps things that mention speaking, which would be a lot of effort, but I think if they're gonna include deaf wolves, they should account for that. Perhaps there could be a disadvantage in group fights too-I don't think it'd have a serious effect on 1v1 fights, but if you're up against a group of coyotes, you wanna be able to hear them coming up behind you. & Also I know this isn't about blind wolves but I think they should also be able to be herbalists (smell can guide their identification of plants and illnesses+what they're told by the wolves that are sick), pupsitters (similar deal with the 20% energy per pup), mentors (they can still communicate), and mayyybe hunters-but only tracker hunters, although I don't know how coding that would work either so ehhgtf. Oh, and leaders, but compared to deaf wolves it would require having even MORE text changed as a lot of the explore stuff is heavily visually oriented, so,, ehhhh, but it is a disability that players of the game can have and I think being able to play as a blind wolf should be an option if they exist. So other roles incorporated first, and leaders hopefully later down the line... at least for deaf wolves. |
 Perrio #6302 |
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Posted 2023-01-04 15:26:12
I don't think either of these disabilities would actually hinder work in the Herbalism role at all. The sense of smell and textures should be enough for a wolf to be successful. This is a very immersive game, but at the same time, it's not like wolves in real life trade in pinecones and chat with raccoons and snakes, or make medicine for that matter, so I think it'd be completely fine to bend the rules a little bit... |
🦣 𝒌𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐥𝐥 . · · #112534 |
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Posted 2023-02-07 07:25:01
Wolves' roles in the pack should be limited only by a player's preferred style and their vision of their pack, not constrained by a bothersome game mechanic. And this is even without mentioning the troubling implications it has on the real world. I don't want to be throwing the term "ableist" around willy-nilly, but it's extremely presumptuous to say that blind / deaf wolves cannot perform roles that sighted / hearing ones can. They are wolves and have a great sense of smell. They can get by without some senses just fine. Blind or deaf dogs can be trained to do a variety of things and can live a fulfilling life. I know this is just a pixel wolf game and I shouldn't be drawing comparisons to people, but positive representation is important! Imagine being able to roleplay a character that's like you or someone you know, then being told they can't do things "normal" wolves can. That's mega icky. I am not saying remove all limitations. It is an interesting addition to the game after all. However, they could be affected in other ways - perhaps born with lower stats, or gain proficiency more slowly? They could perform individual tasks like scouting missions and foraging more slowly initially, or even be able to take another guide along as a helper. Then they could actually be an asset to the pack by allowing essentially an extra herbalist or scout instead of just a pretty dress-up doll. They should not be entirely unable to perform certain tasks. |
 Zea #27549 |
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Posted 2023-02-14 17:00:43
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 Orion #1812 |
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Posted 2023-02-15 14:22:44 (edited)
Realistically, wolves do not majorly rely on their hearing to hunt prey. Maybe for smaller critters, but they really are typically specialized for bringing down big prey that they track by scent and then chase down. They don't really crouch or stalk like cats either, sans for laying in wait for beavers when appliable but definetly not when it comes to hunting large game. Such as elk and similar sized prey. It's simply not a viable strategy when the prey will likely detect the wolf first than the wolf detects the exact location of the prey, and it's not really needed for the prey to immedietly scatter at any sign of a wolf because they do have the ability to potentionally scare of a wolf that isn't quite hungry and running just becomes a waste of resources then. Realistically, your wolf should be able to hunt fine in any role- auditory/verbal communication won't exactly really be a viable option when you are busy running after a bunch of clattering hooves, and finishing shouldn't be too complicated either as it's a solitary role. Herbalist shouldn't be an issue either- at most you would need to send a hearing wolf to be able to detect auditory threats, otherwise your medic should have no problem to track down herbs by sight and smell, if not just smell alone altogether. Scouting is already allowed alone though, and you'd wager that auditory cues would be more needed and appreciated in that role, but it's not and I am not having any problems with it either. So most physical jobs are already realistically not a big enough of a problem to warrant a ban. Then we move onto roles that will likely rely more on sound based communication, and this is where deaf wolves realistically would struggle the most- their trademark long distance communication might be an issue (they are pretty loud though, so if the deaf wolf retains any little hearing they might able to detect it), and they won't be able to hear the barks and yaps of closeby wolves, although these can be usually solved by just reading body language instead. Flashing teeth and growling really mean the same in the end. Deaf wolves would realistically most be at risk as puppies, because they won't be able to hear verbal instructions and warnings about danger. This might be able to be reflected in being born with lower survival chances, but these are all solved easily with just assigning them a pupsitter in the first place. It would make sense aswell that a deaf pup would survive as long as they have one adult specifically on the outlook for them. And this is only taking in majorly irl scenarios, completly ignoring that the wolves here demonstrably have sapience, an understanding of complex relations and communicate with completly different species aswell. If wolves can effectively communicate with what would basically be nearly the human equivlant of aliens, then consistently they really shouldn't have an issue with figuring out how to communicate with deaf individuals of their own species, really. In the end, deaf wolves would most likely only really struggle with pupsitting ( it's a position where you might need to listen after dangers and verbally communicate that to kiddos- although the last part is pretty easily solveable by just informing the pups that if the deaf wolf screams then it means it's time to gtfo out of there.) and being leaders, since part of that is recruiting new wolves that might not speak the alternative visual language. Unless you make the wolvden universe canonically require all puppies to be taught someform of sttabdardized lingua franca LS (Not neccearly SL, only just an alternative way of communication, it doesn't really need to be signs as the digits on a Wolvden wolf might not be flexible enough to carry the conversation. But touching/tapping of different parts on the body, tail, ear, head, paw, overall body movement could create a solid language) which would be pretty cool from Wolvden ngl. Outside from howling lessons, there is also no reason to discern that the puppies wouldn't be taught in a pack to speak with a deaf packmate like any other language. Whow well that was a lot. Still here? Good. This has also been mostly counting with fully deaf of nearly fully deaf from birth wolves, things can change considerably if the person retains some of their hearing but is still legally deaf. My only last addition would be that I would generally preffer if disabled wolves would by default have penalties applied to them in certain fields rather than banning them altogether. Because individuals with disabled senses might struggle considerably, but they won't be completly unable to do what their non-disabled peers can't do. It's even double true to animals who have the heightened senses of their irl counterparts but also much more human level intelligence. The only example I can think of banning a disabled wolf from some roles if they were toothless, because wolves rely on biting to fight and take down prey, so leader and hunter (maybe with exception of tracker) would be out of the question. But that's genuinenly the only one I can think of, and that is still only 2 roles out of 5. I'm also just focusing on deaf now and not also analyzing blind. It's also worth to note that I am not hard of hearing myself so I don't have personal experience, this is just me going through the most logical conclusions to me with what I know, however little that might be. I want to mainly just dispell any idea that a deaf character would be helpless in a naturalistic setting (especcially if they have other members to back them up) or that a deaf wolf hunting would need to be stealthy or would scare away prey "realistically". Because uh, except maybe for hunting beavers (but even then, just figuring out to lay still wouldn't be super dificult imo) that just simply wouldn't happen in real life, ever, to be considerable data. Don't suggest realism if you don't even know how and what senses wolves typically use to hunt bruh. (Specializations exist such as the fishing wolves, and those are cool but not the norm) Disabled people have their limits yes and those are to be respected, but that doesn't mean they are blanket incapable of anything. Other heightened senses aren't also nearly superpowers if I understand it right, you just notice them more as an information. But here my knowledge gets more blurry so I will leave it at here- and don't take my words as authority because I don't have that, either. Edit: Confused otters and beavers, fixed that |
 Datrandomcat #11515 |
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Posted 2023-02-17 07:36:38 (edited)
But maybe as pups they take a tad more care due to the fact that they need a tad more watching |
 Radar #53941 |
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Posted 2023-02-18 10:54:08
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 Jusdreiin #2445 |