Show Instances of Inbreeding

no support.

i'm honestly concerned by how the support responses on this frame inbreeding; as if "the right to make more informed decisions on the game" implies that IB wolves are scams or something. there's already a heavy stigmatization on inbreeding, so much moreso than on lioden, to the point that people who are willing to breed IB are shunned from the market or have to sell their wolves for lower prices with no bites because of something so trivial that doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever. people who do not care about IB are turned away from it because of the shame that a lot of people put on it. it's a gameplay preference, sure. a gameplay preference so damn oppressive it might as well be a site one. 

"the value of the market will not change whatsoever." if you actually follow the value of the WD market you will realize that IB and lineages very much affect pricing and interest, and a lot of people do not accept IB wolves. there is no market for IB whatsoever.

and that's the fear on why i and other people do not support this: because it reinforces a playstyle preference that's already overwhelming the market, because adding a counter on the family page or--heavens forbid--the wolf page itself is as much shaming IB breeders as much as it is helping NIB. 

if there were a feature implemented, i'd go with Dżanek's idea of showing the entire heritage tree to have an easier time checking without the direct implication that IB is undesirable.

No they're not inherently a scam but acting like this is going to take business away from you implies, to me, that somehow you have more business without the indicator. i.e., you are taking advantage of the fact its hidden to sell them. Seems a little underhanded to me.
"There's no market for IB whatsoever" well then again, this makes literally no difference, no?

^^ I’m with Closet here. Any wolf you are selling is already inbred and there is already stigma attached, already players less willing to buy them; an indicator would just make that more visible to anyone buying. It would help people make informed decisions if they’re tired or don’t want to look through long family lines. Additionally, it seems to me that you seem to be projecting on other players; this would be a simple indicator of the status of the wolf, and NIB players desiring it does not mean we want to force you to stop inbreeding; this could show you how inbred your own wolves are, so you could achieve inbreeding goals and such! 

We’d just like a feature that tells us if a wolf is inbred or not, and that concept alone is neutral. It is not pro or anti inbreeding, it simply exists. 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think the convenience of the feature (and number of generations checked) will have an impact on how many people decide to care about inbreeding and how far back they care about it. Like... a lot of NIB/IB breeders are already following entrenched rules/definitions, but there are also people on the fence about it, especially new and future players. 

It’s just fair to people who care about that to know what they are possibly spending game currency on. If you chose to buy something you should be well informed on what you’re buying, ib or not. People who don’t want to ib will look into lineage anyway.

That’s fair! I was thinking primarily of current NIB players; most I know already have their set play style, so a ticker wouldn’t affect their decisions- it would just make them simpler. But I can see how a newbie might decide to go NIB when they notice the text- or might decide to inbreed deeply to see if they can max out the counter. 

the reason IB prices are way lower isnt because of how inbreeding is heavily stigmatised, its just because it just so happens a large majority of the rich players have a preference or are entirely clean breeders for self challenge so the player base follows along in hopes of getting their wolves bought out by these players hence gettin clean wolves themselves and a chain reaction occurs only a teeny minority of players are actively shunning anyone that does 'dirty' breedinga= and these players get in trouble with the mods, most clean breeders do not care whether you do or not

knowing this, the issue isnt 'inbreeding is shunned' the issue is that wolvden ended up with an unusually high amount of people that like to clean breed, and with no other route to gaining profit off their kids other than the tc, people gotta abide by the clean breeders

in addition, if you ignored what was stated above, it makes accidental buying less frequent for a lot of players and  lends a hand to those that like clean breeding in exchange for a slightly worse stigma that may or may not do anything

Actually, the chances of me buying a wolf from a breeder who isn't NIB would go up if an inbreeding coefficient were visible on the wolf's page - because advertisers would no longer need to put that information in the title. 

Ever since starting my NIB project, I've stopped clicking on TC wolves who didn't have "NIB" in the title.

With a coefficient, the distinction would no longer be black and white IB vs. NIB, but rather a spectrum from about 25% to 0.2% or less. Different groups of players might agree to challenge themselves with a 10%, 5%, 0.2% threshold etc. I think the market for wolves who aren't necessarily NIB would benefit.

New Wolvden players already quickly learn what NIB vs IB means and choose one side or the other. If we had an inbreeding coefficient, players would not really know how to decode that unless they already cared about inbreeding before joining the site. 

And I don’t think it’s unfair to point out that this will have an impact on the market. Using myself as an example, my natural inclination is to be a 4-5 generation NIB breeder - I settled on five generations because that’s how much the site shows on the family tree. Already, the site design is influencing my game play decisions. Knowledge of the market has me feeling pressured to have no common ancestors among my wolves at any level - which fine, that’s on me for caring about user trends. I’m fine with the current state of the site. And I’m fine with a five generation indicator - on the family tree or via scrying stone. But if there’s an indicator on my wolf’s page, especially one that goes back further than five generations, it’s going to influence how I feel about my wolves. It’s going to influence which wolves I want to buy. I absolutely understand the frustration involved with wanting a simple QOL feature and having people push back on it - but I don’t think we’re wrong for voicing our concerns and trying to find some kind of compromise that works for everyone. (For me, it’s a toggable five gen IB note on the family tree page + a 10 sc scry to check a wolf’s full family line. Feels like the best compromise between convenience for hard core NIB players and limited market impact for the rest of us.)

(And also I’m legitimately concerned about the extra server load if each wolf is automatically checked for infinity generations; the number of potential ancestors doubles each generation and while it won’t be as heavy a load as the pup scry, it’s not nothing.)

you're misattributing my points to "i want to sell my stuff". i am not selling IB wolves actually. i do want to at some point but with the amount of backlash my "no support" has gotten i doubt i ever will if this is the reception they'll receive. that's the issue: IB means taking advantage. IB means selling off an undesirable wolves as desirable ones, in this economy. selling IB means selling underhanded.

it's a more long-term concern than that. the NIB/clean trend is already more entrenched into the implicit rules of WD more than LD's ever had. making an easy-to-see counter that shows you the supposed purity of your wolf will just reinforce how NIB is the "correct" way to play, and more players join not because they want this playstyle, but because it'll become the prominent way to play. that's all.