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Community Update #117

Posted 2023-11-11 15:19:04
#1092047
Having played Lioden I would argree with Naava that the karma system would feel out of place here (to be honest, it feels out of place in Lioden too). As Naava pointed out, some encounters that might be good or evil are simply just... survival. Animals are different than humans and have different values, the karma system doesn't really reflect that. You're also generally more heavily rewarded for being evil and the game is harder to play if you are good, so in a way it punishes you to be good. In some events on Lioden you are FORCED to be evil to complete tasks in a reasonable time frame, while there is no force to be good. (For example, one month for a challenge you must fight a certain number of lions. The only real way to complete this is to fight NCLs [newly claimed lionsses / aka newly befriended wolves] which is an 'evil' choice, as the spawn rate for npc lion encounters is too low to use it reliably. This is just one of many examples.)

I'd rather see a system that rewards leadership. Rather than "good" or "evil" it's just points towards a leadership style. I.e. more stoic/lone wolf or pack/team orientated (just an off the top of my head example, it doesn't have to be that specifically).

For those who don't know what karma is, while I'm no expert; it's the system where you get "points" for every encouter choice you make. Those points vary and are either good, neutral, or evil. Things like chasing (neutral), killing (evil), or sending away (good) your wolves also would award different points. Depending on how good or evil you are your "eye graphic" in explore would change, as well as some of your encounters. At least that's how it is for Lioden. I don't know what it will look like here.
β„­trl 🌸
#124052
Posted 2023-11-11 15:47:45
#1092063
NEWSSSS!!
Ebony
#112898
Posted 2023-11-11 16:44:30
#1092074
Since I hadn't seen any info added from the Devs about how karma works I went ahead & voted No.
I don't mind choosing an alignment to play in one Event, but daily, no. Wolves kill to live just live every other animal, that doesn't make them evil. I don't & won't debate the ethics of feeding my wolves every time I log in.
Celtic Ravens
#31620
Posted 2023-11-11 18:27:40
#1092116
I wouldn't mind if a personality system was added (complex/elaborate and not morality-based), but not a dichotomous karma system.
Snær
#35015
Posted 2023-11-13 12:28:09
#1092920

Cant Wait To Try Out The New Minigame! I Love Puzzles.


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#46178
Posted 2023-11-13 15:13:34
#1093016
As a Lioden player who has gone down all three karma routes multiple times, here's my view of how it works.

Many encounters have a "good" and a "bad" option to start with. There's a wide variety that gives all sorts of rewards for both routes, but "good" tends to focus on Impression (a stat that's sort of like Level here in that it maxes and affects the NBW variety, but you can refill the bar at max and get stats on LD) while "bad" tends to focus on item gain - mainly carcasses.

Not every encounter gives Karma - generally only ones with two worthwhile and opposite options. While I 100% know the "Kindly offer Acorn" vs. "Meanly offer Acorn" is supposed to be a karma encounter here, I doubt things that ask you to, say, either kill or bully the beaver is going to include karma.

As you get more Karma in either direction, new and exclusive encounters show up. They usually are pretty equal in rewards, sometimes being nearly identical in all but flavor text, sometimes making up for opportunity cost getting there (there is a lion encounter that will give you a high-use toy on the evil side, and a similar lion encounter that will give you a high-use carcass in on the good side, for example).

There's also Neutral karma, which each king starts with but is difficult to maintain. There are certain exclusive decors and crafting items that can be found if you manage to maintain it into higher-level zones (explore is level-based in LD).

Events also tend to have NPCs of each alignment that will occasionally task you to gain appropriate karma. You aren't locked out of them if you are the wrong alignment, but there may be flavor text if you choose contrary to your karma (I think this flavor text is only in the October event). Most events have a Neutral NPC as well, but reasons to stay neutral came out later so not all of them do.

As for my opinion about it on Wolvden? I don't really have a strong one. I could do with it or without it. It is nice to be able to choose what to focus on in Explore day-by-day rather than leader-by-leader, but Karma would also differentiate the experience of different leaders a lot more.
Before
#8638
Posted 2023-11-13 16:01:27
#1093081
Thanks for the explanation Before. Reinforces my choice of No.
BTW I am Oppossum NeutralΒ  because I never even stop to consider giving that walkin' hissyfit an acorn at all.
Celtic Ravens
#31620
Posted 2023-11-16 18:21:15
#1094769
frankly the most non intrusive actions i could think of for karma was not something necessarily explore based (though it could affect explore by giving random, special encounters that have different descriptions but give the same reward: or even new flavor text) but rather based in how you, as a leader, treat your own pack: if for example you were prompted to resolve a dispute you could choose between a peaceful resolve (good) or a violent resolve by hurting packmates (bad), making your wolf either feared or revered as a leader. perhaps you can punish your packmates if youre a feared leader by forcing them to bring you compensations for failed hunts, or a good leader can have tributes and gifts that are small and not significant or locked behind a special as an act of good faith from the pack. that way it doesnt demoralize wolves for doing what us humans see as cruel but for them is just survival in explore, but plays with wolvdens anthrophomorphic traits enough that their value of "goodness" is rather determined on how they treat their own kind, in their own den page. and of course this shouldnt be obligatory and could be toggable in a way you wont lose significant gameplay, but could give daily flavored prompts to feel like youre interacting with your pack beyond visiting each individuals wolfs pages and getting a flavor text. they could even change depending on the leaders personality if we really wanna shoot for the stars. ambitious but an idea i mused over before.
Saberbites
#12300
Posted 2023-11-16 18:23:26
#1094772
perhaps instead of karma it could possibly have a "respect" or "reputation", where negative points mean youre feared/evil/amoral as a leader and positive means youre good/respected/wise as a leader, etc
Saberbites
#12300