Opinion(s) About Breeding

I2Wolves

I wasn't necessarily talking about you, I've seen a number of people using energy gain as an argument. But I mean, sure, you can nest immediately if you want, nothing stopping you. But other players will use the more efficient choice of waiting until the last day, in the last few hours. That way they can still do all those things, still be a use instead of keeping them nested for days and wasting the females' potential.

If you want to limit yourself in that way to play it safe, by all means. It's not like your opinion's wrong, play it however you'd like. But for those of us who don't do that, pregnancy isn't in the least bit an issue. There's no repercussions in waiting until the last day. So if there's no repercussions, it leads right back into having all females, because there's no cons on doing that. There ARE cons with having males.

Edit: JUST saw people mentioning the pros and cons of not nesting until the last day in Help Chat. What're the odds of that lol.

Honestly my only real issue so far is the fact my boys can't breed. I have these cute little couples but oh look, ya can't have babies together sorry! Kinda sucks and throws a loop in all my lore. Like, I wanted to have caves be different little packs forming one big pack with a different 'lead pair' or whatever for each one but I can't really do that cuz if I have a male lead for the other pack it's not like he can do anything and have his own babies.

My way around it for now is to breed the girl with a male that looks similar to her partner but it's annoying cuz he'll never have his own little babies and it's all just my little idea in my head n that makes me sad lol.

I'd literally be fine if boys had like a cooldown and like had to be nested too or something cuz at least they'd get to have babies of they own and genetically not useless xD

my thoughts really still are the same as the other locked thread. i dislike the system. i disliked it on lioden & i dislike it here. its going to cause the same issues. myself (& i know a large majority of others) completely skip over male wolves. its clear by how many male wolves are up for sale vs females, not many people want them.

when people say useless, they mean genetically useless. male wolves can hunt, they can do anything a female can do, but its just a dead end. the time put into them has no point. they can't pass on their stats. hunting & scouting is a main way to build up stats..what's the point of it its just never going to go anywhere, is my thought process.

as i said on the other thread, at the end of the day, males are just...wasted potential. it doesn't matter if you have a super cool, 500 stat male wolf, 10 markings with rare ones in there. either you sex change them, or they're just wasted potential. they mean nothing in terms of how they look, or their stats.

personally my pack is mostly female; i cba to rebuild my hunting party so i am working on sex changing most of them. i'd rather spend time in building up female wolves, to get good statted pubbies off of them, than having males that are going to mean nothing with the time that's been placed into them

I really, REALLY dislike the current system. I already made my point in the locked thread but I'll reiterate: males feel like wasted potential both mechanics and lore-wise because they have no way to pass on their genes. This makes me and many other players want to avoid them on principle, thus reducing their value compared to females.

I've been here for a little more than a week and I already can't count the amount of times I've looked at a cute puppy on the tc and passed it up solely because it was a male. And speaking of the tc, you can already notice pricing differences between male and female wolves. Wanna know a trick to guess a puppy's sex without clicking on a trade? If no sex is mentioned in the trade title, it's a male 90% of the time.

You can argue that male pups can be sex-changed but that comes at the cost of 3gc so, best case scenario is males will always be worth 3gc less than females. This is a breeding game so unless males will be allowed to breed somehow, they will objectively be worth less than females.

I agree so much, especially with people who are saying that it messes up for lore and stuff like that. i don't really see why it would be bad to make it so you can have a breeding male and put females up for stud (like lioden's reverse studding) and then have the non-stud males in your pack function like females in that they would have breeding cool downs and they could breed with females in your pack or females up for studding from other packs. i mean it would basically make it so that a male is no different from a female unless you make it the stud male, and it wouldn't hurt the stud market because your males wouldn't be able to sell their studs, only breed to your girls or buy a stud from another pack's female, y'know? i know staff doesn't want suggestions and i don't want it to come off like i dislike the game— i really love the game so far, a HELL of a lot more than lioden, and i find the community here so far to be less stressful to interact with, i just wish it was less like lioden in this aspect too. i stopped playing lioden entirely a few months ago and wasn't thinking i'd like wolvden, but i actually am sticking around and writing lore for it, and it seems like many other people (more than lioden, proportionally) are writing lore for their wolves as well or even just lil dynamics. i think it would be super cool if they let the males pass on their genetics and play more of a role in the continuation of the pack, and vary the genetic pool a bit haha

my opinion on breeding now, though, is it's pretty nice— kinda what i expected, coming from lioden. i haven't had many litters born yet but i have a few on the way in the next few days. if they stick with the current breeding system for males, i would only be hoping for a change in the percentage chance for males vs females to at least have less male pups born compared to females— that at least, seems like an easy thing to do

Mine is another voice chiming in to say that males being unable to pass on their genetics in any meaningful way has put an immediate damper on the game for me, particularly as a player who prefers to keep to their own little wolf bubble and not interact much with the stud market. Curious to see if the dev team has any ideas brewing, in any case. 

I was browsing the trading center to figure out how to price my puppies, and it looks like males are worth half as much as females. That says a lot about the current system.

Lore wise and game play wise, I tried studding and it was okay, but I think I’m going to stick to a fairly realistic wolf pack structure and only breed one couple at a time. Which is a bummer because it doesn’t let me play around with genetics as much, but I care about lore more than making money selling pups, so. *shrug*

^{Also this is a pet peeve but wolves don’t have alphas or betas.} 

IMO it makes very little sense to have breeding males in the first place. They're wolves, not lions. Wolves are literally monogamous. I'm not generally a stickler for realism but that's a pretty basic thing that could make for some neat mechanics. Instead of only having one breeding male, pair up your wolves. If you want to breed them to a different wolf you have to pay an "infidelity" fee, or if karma is implemented have that damage your pack karma. Sure that could knock the stud market out but it would give a use to males. It could potentially strengthen the sales market too as you wouldn't have 100 pups by the same male all competing.

Something like that would make Wolvden more than a reskinned Lioden.

Hey, they aren't useless! They can still do things, do them just as well, gain lots of lovely stats, be made beautiful with markings and colors, and then amount to nothing and die alone.
... So just objectively worse unless you are going to buy them a sex change or are doing a very dedicated RP/lore pack (like I am, but I'm already disappointed I can't keep some of my favorite males going in the in the next generation of my pack and that alone is pushing me towards females.)

I don't think anyone expects a strict realistic model of a wolf pack where there is a leading (mostly) monogamous breeding pair, the pack are their offspring who haven't drifted off yet... I also don't think most of us wanted Lioden But With Wolves This Time Edition either. Like, Lioden is fantastic game that has nearly a decade of love and attention poured into it and if I wanted to play Lioden I could. Right now! It's still there, more 'complete' than Wolvden, still supported, and still fantastic... but I want to RP a fantasy wolf pack and the whole breeding male thing just feels like a weird hangover from a different game starring a different species with a different social hierarchy.

I don't nest my females until just before rollover/they run out of daily hunts. No reason to nest them immediately.