Add Coefficient of Inbreeding (COI)

Add Coefficient of Inbreeding (COI)
Posted 2021-11-05 09:56:46 (edited) #554717 I've seen people pay a lot of attention to whether or not their wolves are even slightly inbred, and because of this it's hard to sell wolves with long lineages - even if they're not inbred, as long lineages make it harder to see if two wolves are distantly related. This is quite frustrating to me, as I would love to see people make long breeding projects that would span generations and others would appreciate them. Right now the shorter pedigree a wolf has the more valuable it is, which is... bizarre, to me. I wish the game would calculate a COI (coefficient of inbreeding) for each wolf, this should be simple to add, and it could appear on the lineage page. Whenever you breed wolves you could test mate them to see their predicted COI, similar to scrying. Several online dog pedigree databases have such tools. I don't think this would be a negative addition in any way. People already avoid inbred wolves and they're looked down upon, so this wouldn't make it worse for those who have them. It would be a great tool to avoid inbreeding completely or to keep it under a certain % (or hell, if you want to make wolves as inbred as possible you could do that too). Having a way to calculate COI would also make wolves with long lineages more valuable.	Narasimha #48460

Posted 2021-11-05 09:56:46 (edited)

#554717

I've seen people pay a lot of attention to whether or not their wolves are even slightly inbred, and because of this it's hard to sell wolves with long lineages - even if they're not inbred, as long lineages make it harder to see if two wolves are distantly related. This is quite frustrating to me, as I would love to see people make long breeding projects that would span generations and others would appreciate them. Right now the shorter pedigree a wolf has the more valuable it is, which is... bizarre, to me.

I wish the game would calculate a COI (coefficient of inbreeding) for each wolf, this should be simple to add, and it could appear on the lineage page. Whenever you breed wolves you could test mate them to see their predicted COI, similar to scrying. Several online dog pedigree databases have such tools.

I don't think this would be a negative addition in any way. People already avoid inbred wolves and they're looked down upon, so this wouldn't make it worse for those who have them. It would be a great tool to avoid inbreeding completely or to keep it under a certain % (or hell, if you want to make wolves as inbred as possible you could do that too). Having a way to calculate COI would also make wolves with long lineages more valuable.

Narasimha
#48460

Posted 2021-12-07 19:02:08

#588109

I support! Combing through generations and generations of lineages is exhausting and time consuming. It's very easy to accidentally inbreed two long lineage wolves and to find inbreeding higher up in the line.

If the devs were to add a COI to the family tree, it should be ID based and not name based as it is possible that two unrelated wolves could have the same name (looking at you, people who name their wolves Michael Scott) and confuse the system.

It should also go beyond the 5th generation, which is possible as I know of a site that has a COI that extends 25+ generations.

frog
#32540

Posted 2021-12-08 01:39:06

#588370

For the COI to be truthful it should calculate every possible generation all the way to the beginning, but I'd be happy with a limited calculation too.

Narasimha
#48460

Posted 2021-12-08 01:50:44

#588371

100% Support this because it's exhausting updating a google doc to keep up with lineages at times

🌵NIB Brachy Breeder🌵
#5084

Posted 2021-12-13 13:46:13

#595489

Support! I find this kind of thing very interesting and it would be fun to see. Also maybe people would stop getting so grossed out by a COI of like, .004% or whatever

versidue
#50083

Posted 2021-12-14 19:56:54 (edited)

#597093

Support! People on wolvden care deeply about their lineages for lore and other purposes, it makes selling long lineage wolves next to impossible bc its such a pain to go through and make sure theyre nib. But theres huge advantages to having long lineage wolves such as:

Stats, high statted wolves. Higher statted hunters could allow for more players to live in more challenging regions. This could make for interesting lore to be added by the devs later on for region specific stuff?

I think it would also boost the stud market for longer lineage wolves due to stats, breed only and event markings / eyes

At a glance the longest generation thats easy to see is G4, honestly rarely see anyone advertise as anything longer than this bc they dont want to sift through lineage lists. As well as to many players lying about wolves being nib when they in fact are.

This would solve any confusion or manipulation on buyer/seller parts much like how Genes Hollow was put in to solve people lying about mutation, in fact you could even check wolves lineages for inbreeding at genes hollow for 50sc just like the hidden mutations 🤔

Edit:
You could also see when scrying two wolves together if theyre related or not. Even if its an extra 25sc people would pay it no problem. Honestly imo scrying became obsolete when genes hollow was put in. Giving it the ability to recognize related wolves would give it more use and put more currency back into the game.

I do think the majority of players on wolvden prefer Nib wolves to ib, I think the devs dont want to have an opinion on the matter which is why nothing is put in place. However, the playerbase does care about this. If players dont care to have IB wolves then they dont need to test to see if the wolf is clean or not which is where my ideas of using genes hollow and scrying come into play. This allows the player to have the option and sinks sc back into the. Game

🧊IceOrthrus🧊
#15164

Posted 2021-12-14 20:50:45

#597140

yesss maybe one scry for funsies and one where it's permanent like with fertility and I think i might know the site, but yeah, I think the inbreeding coefficient could be treated as the same sort of way as fertility (rather than mutations).

KittenWolf
#7713

Posted 2021-12-14 20:59:22 (edited)

#597146

I wouldnt say its for fun really but being able to see the relation between wolves before breeding without having to look through lineages, whereas the other would tell for the wolf itself not its offspring if that makes sense.

🧊IceOrthrus🧊
#15164

Posted 2021-12-14 21:17:08

#597159

yeah, but i would still forget that a wolf was gen 1 and still check the inbreeding coefficient.

and I could be confused 'cause in my head it was to see if the current wolf is inbred while this suggests both that and a way to see if future pups would be inbred?

(or at least how much inbreeding has taken place), which, yeah, makes sense... if you want to pb some wolves or just breed anyway.

Though I must say my game so far would be to rack up the coi as much as possible and then see how low I could get it (would never be 0 but you know...

KittenWolf
#7713

Posted 2021-12-15 03:28:01

#597336

KittenWolf, COI looks at how related the sire and dam are to each other. Even the most inbred sire and the most inbred dam can produce 0% COI pups if the parent has no common ancestors WITH the other parent. This is why even the worst of dog breeds will produce 0% COI litters if outcrossed to a completely different breed, which makes occasional outcrossing a very powerful tool. Of course real life and Wolvden are wildly different things, so it would be up to the game devs to decide how they'd want to calculate the COI. I support how it's calculated in real life animal breeding. This way also inbred wolves would become more valuable in the game, as when outcrossed to a completely unrelated wolf the gene pool is freshened.

Narasimha
#48460

Add Coefficient of Inbreeding (COI)

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