Help me perfect a pup pricing formula!

Still active! Let me see if I can find the discord server invite

I got you! THIS is the Guild's WC page, which I believe has a link to the Discord on it.

It is definitely still active! I'll message you a link :D

EDIT - WOMP just say the old replies from Starling and Izzy, thanks y'all <3

Hi everyone! I just wanted to post the most recent version of the formula here, so that folks can get a sense of where it's at, and keep discussing how to keep it evolving with the site! Here it is in all its complex glory:

Price in SC = [20+(Mb*5)+(Mv*5)(Ms*5)] * [G] * [I] * [S] * [B] * [E] * [P]

Ms = number of standard / base markings

Mv = number of valuable markings

Ms = number of special markings

Gender modifier: if male, S=0.5; if female, S=1

Inbreeding modifier: if inbred, B = 0.75; if clean-bred, B = 1

Stats modifier: see breakdown below (range between 0.25 and 4)

Base modifier: see breakdown below (range between 0.5 and 5)

Eye modifier: see breakdown below (range between 0.75 and 2)

Potato check: if Male AND Tier 1 AND stats are below 300, P=0.5; if not, P=1

So what's new? The biggest thing is that there's three "groups" of markings and each has a different multiplier. This is the breakdown I use for deciding what goes in each group, but the TL;DR is: anything you can find on a plain NBW is a base mark; any color deviation or RMA-only mark is a valuable mark; and anything that can only be found rarely (like on special NBWs or event-only marks, if they get added) is a special mark.

Additionally, the new version of the formula is meant to create a floor, not to be a hard-and-fast rule. If you feel a wolf is worth more than the formula says, then thats not a bad thing; I'm more worried about the other direction!

Some other major changes:

- No more market modifier. That might come back at some point, but right now it isn't necessary, as this spits out pretty low prices

- no more rarity check, as that's accounted for in the new base modifier (more on that below)

- changed the "sex" modifier to "gender" because I needed to use the S for stats, since level isn't a good fit.

- reworked the Stats modifier to have a new, more comprehensive breakdown (see table below) 

- added in two new, very powerful modifiers: Base (B) and Eye (E) (see tables below)

If you're a member of the Merchant's Guild, we've got a handy calculator that'll do the equation for ya if you input your wolf's details. If you're not a guild member or you want your own copy of the formula to play around with, my best recommendation is to grab yourself a spreadsheet - I'm happy to share the excel formula from mine anytime, just let me know. 

There are still some things missing, even with the new rework! I still don't have a great way of taking age, heat, lineage, role proficiency, or specific high stats into account. For instance, even a pretty potato-y boy with 100% scout proficiency and over 100 wisdom will be worth a fair bit more than the calculator would currently price him as. How do we account for that?

Aaaand then there's mutations. Oh boy. I don't have any muties and don't breed for em, so I'd LOVE some input from those who have / do! So, in summary: here's the latest version. What do y'all think?

TAAAABLLLLEEES:

[fun fact - if you try to copy and paste excel cells here, the post editor FREAKS OUT]

Eyes Modifiers [E]: 

Base Modifiers [B]:

Stats Modifiers [S]:

That’s awesome! I’d suggest maybe adding a stat category for under 180 as well that’s more valuable, I know I’m not the only low stat breeder!

oooo I hadn't even thought of that!! hmmm.... what kind of a modifier tier would you suggest? maybe back up to 1 if its under 180, then increasing from there? what's considered wildly valuable for low stats? Is less than 100 even possible?

Even if this is a pretty niche corner case its still cool to think about :D

I’m not fully sure! It takes a decent amount of effort (and wolves without jobs) to breed down, so maybe each set of 10 is worth more going down that up?

190 to 199 - 1, 180 to 189 - 2, 170 to 179 - 3, 160 to 169 - 4, etc

or maybe point 5 increments still works better there.

for how far you can go, I’m not sure. There are other users doing this project, it would be good to ask them what the lowest theyve gotten is!

I don't necessarily agree with the T3/special modifiers. The cost of obtaining them right now is special<fox<BO. I personally value special the lowest as the app can be easily obtained with just one week of grinding. The app can then be applied to any wolf to create as many new lines as desired. Fox is also in the boat where once an app is obtained, it can be applied to any wolf to create new lines, but as of right now it is more difficult and more expensive to gather all the materials than a special base. However, given the semi-retired status of special base apps (and the rumour that special pass more rarely than T3), I would give special base only a slightly higher modifier than an app T3 base.

I personally rank BO T3 the highest because the only way to obtain is through breeding or finding chased T3. Both options have low odds, and most importantly you cannot readily create new lines at will. Therefore I personally would give BO T3 the highest modifier.

@sol hmmmmm that is all very interesting and helpful! 

I'm not a T3 breeder at all so I tend to defer to folks who are in discussions like this, and your comments are super enlightening. My only quibble with your suggested special<fox<BO ranking is that, my understanding is that specific event-only bases will inherently be harder to obtain as time goes on; since we no longer have the option of buying a selene base at all (barring future Big Moon Events where some will be available), at this moment the only way to obtain a selene pup is to breed to one, or to use an applicator. By contrast, applicator bases that are craft-able will not become harder to obtain (if anything, it's the opposite, as a market develops for the trophy components necessary to craft them). So to me, applicator bases seem less valuable than event bases, even if you can grind out the compenents for an event base faster than for an applicator base.

But that being said, I hadn't considered your points about breed-only bases being inherently harder to get than anything applicator (event OR craftable). So what about:

T3 Craftable applicator: 3

T3 Event applicator: 3.5

T3 Breed-only: 4

How does that look? 

(Also that rumour about event specials passing more rarely than other T3's: that is WILD, have the devs confirmed that? that would be such a bummer if true!)

I think as time goes on the specific special bases will become much more valuable. Right now, since there’s only one and it was super recently gotten by so many, it seems to be everywhere. Give it a few months and I think it’ll be better